Questions With Christian Erhardt: Vice President of Marketing Photographic Division, Leica Camera USA
I recently had the pleasure to chat with Christian Erhardt who is Vice President of Marketing Photographic Division, Leica Camera USA. On the agenda were questions about how Leica has changed recently with the success of their new products, their growing userbase, and tactics to lure in the average American consumer. Hit the jump for the full interview.
Chris: The Leica M9 and X1 have been extremely successful in terms of sales, have you found that Leica’s userbase has evolved or changed any from what they previously were with the M8/M8.2?
Christian: The Leica customer base remains essentially the same: serious amateur and professional photographers who demand the best and finest. The M9, however, entices film photographers to go digital. The M9’s full-frame, 18-megapixel CCD image sensor allows photographers to capture the full 35mm format without compromises. When utilizing M-lenses, photographers are now able to enjoy the same angle of view as when shooting film. The X1 also widened Leica’s customer base by attracting the professional photographer who is looking for a compact camera to accompany him/her everywhere without compromising on image quality.
Chris: Leica has a Facebook and a Twitter, things that are for the most part, dominantly used by people around the college age level. How has Leica been trying to market themselves towards college students and young adults like myself?
Christian: Leica appreciates all supporters. We have always valued the input of younger generations and are happy to communicate with our fan base in whatever manner they desire. Leica has always enjoyed dialogue and we welcome opportunities to grow in our offerings and recommendations on how to better serve our customers. Additionally, today people of all ages use Facebook. Leica Camera can certainly see that in the active demographic of Facebook users.
Chris: What has Leica been doing to attract new customers to the S2 system? It has been receiving very positive reviews so far, do you feel that Leica has started to take a much stronger stance in the category since “shaking the industry with it?”
Christian: The S-System is indeed a spectacular tool that sets a standard in professional digital photography. Our most recent initiative to promote the S-System is the Leica North American Road Show. It has proved to be a great way to educate our customers and offer them an opportunity to test this ground-breaking camera. We have found that once customers experience the S-System, either through one of the demos at an authorized Leica dealer or one of our many local and national events, it becomes addictive to continue using this unique product. Leica Camera has delivered every camera that has come out of production and certainly the S-System is well on its way to becoming the most popular product in its category due to its ease of handling, compactness and incomparable image quality.
Chris: Mike from Luminous Landscape recently issued an “open letter to Leica” offering some ideas on how to improve the products and one of the point he made sounded very similar (if not dead on) to creating a Micro Four Thirds camera. Does Leica have any similar plans and if so what segment of the market would it be aimed towards?
Christian: Leica Camera welcomes any suggestion from our customers and loyal Leica followers. Leica’s focus is to provide the best possible image quality and therefore we have chosen to focus on using only two different sensor formats, the full format & APS-C size sensors. Based on the positive interest that our latest products the LEICA M9 and the LEICA X1 have received, we believe that we have made the right choice of sensor sizes.
Chris: In regards to your consumer line, rival camera companies have been dropping the prices on their point and shoots to accommodate to the economic recession. Leica has always been known as a company that creates premium and costly products involving fine craftsmanship. How are you trying to target/market these products to consumers who are cutting down on spending and don’t want to spend the equivalent of an entry-level DSLR on a camera?
Christian: Leica cameras are the result of the best German engineering and provide its users with a unique photographic experience. We are known for the legendary quality of our lenses, the simplicity of our designs and focus on essential functions. Our goal is and will always be to offer our customers a series of cameras that meet the highest quality standards and decades of photographic delight. This dedication to excellence comes at a price.
Chris: As I saw with my review of the Panasonic ZS-7, the average American wants simplicity in their cameras. Leica has boasted simplicity with their cameras as they have very few buttons and are very cleanly made. How do you reach out to those people specifically and what are usually the responses as the average American once again wants something that’s always more affordable.
Christian: The Leica customer has been and will remain essentially the same: serious amateur and professional photographers who demand the best and finest. There may exist more affordable cameras. We are focused on creating the best.
Please Support the Phoblographer
We love to bring you guys the latest and greatest news and gear related stuff. However, can’t keep doing that unless we have your continued support. If you would like to purchase any of the items mentioned, please do so by clicking out link and then purchasing the items as we then get a small portion of the sale to help run the website.
Chris Gampat
Gevon Servo
Will Greenwald
jcmodus
[...] ThePhoblographer published a brief interview with Christian Ernhardt (VP Marketing Leica USA): “Chris: Mike from Luminous Landscape recently issued an “open letter to Leica” offering some ideas on how to improve the products and one of the point he made sounded very similar (if not dead on) to creating a Micro Four Thirds camera. Does Leica have any similar plans and if so what segment of the market would it be aimed towards? [...]
Interview with Christian Ernhardt (VP Marketing Leica USA) | Leica News & Rumors
April 13, 2010 at 7:15 AM
[...] The Leica customer has been and will remain essentially the same: serious amateur and professional photographers who demand the best and finest. There may exist more affordable cameras. We are focused on creating the best. [...]
Questions With Christian Erhardt: Vice President of Marketing Photographic Division, Leica Camera USA « The Phoblographer | The Click
April 13, 2010 at 10:15 AM
lots of empty words in all these sentences…there are thousends of R photographers…. with plenty of gear…and we do not read a word about a outlook for SLR guys.
Hmann
April 13, 2010 at 12:22 PM
Yes, it’s really not that informative. Can a VP chat a little less formally?
Roger
April 13, 2010 at 5:50 PM
I’m sorry, but I don’t buy the line that Leica caters to professional photographers; at least not with the M line.
Want proof?
What professional in their right mind would buy a $7500 M9 body that isn’t weathersealed? You’re going to take that thing to Iraq or Haiti? Good luck.
They seem to be trying with the S2. I’ll give them credit for that.
The X1? That’s for the country club crowd. The shutter lag alone makes the camera close to useless for anything but static subjects. It doesn’t even have a viable viewing system and lacking that, it’s controls for zone focusing are primitive at best. They may sell a lot of them, but most of those people are taking pictures of their pets or vacation snaps.
They may be able to point to a handful of famous shooters among their M customers, but for starters the average working photographer can barely afford a Leica lens hood these days.
Leica should just drop the act. They are primarily after the well heeled enthusiasts. They see themselves as a luxury brand and that is reflected by their marketing and general attitude.
Yes, their lenses are second to none, but priced beyond the reach of 90% of the market. The M9 is a nice camera (and the only game in town if you want a digital RF), but in terms of IQ it’s hardly in the same league as something like the Nikon 3Ds.
Actually it’s a shame. I’ve been a longtime M shooter, sometimes as a professional, most of the time as an independent. It’s sad to see Leica turn their back on their true customer base and more than 80 years of their history.
Bob
April 13, 2010 at 6:19 PM
Hi Bob,
Thanks for visiting the blog. Your comments are appreciated however, I do have to respectfully disagree.
I’ve used the X1 before when I was at Photography Bay: http://www.photographybay.com/2009/10/26/leica-x1-hands-on-review/ I didn’t notice shutter lag at all. The X1 is still a competitor to the Micro Four Thirds system and others like it as well. Is it expensive? Yes it is, but the X1 is still a wonderful camera with excellent image output and it is also still very discrete, simple and straightforward. I had a pleasure using it.
As for M9′s, I guess you don’t go to Gizmodo at all. They regularly interview a photographer in Iraq that uses nothing but Leicas. Those cameras are very, very tough. If someone tried to rob me of mine, I would beat them with it and not worry. Additionally, they have a very long lifespan. When you buy the cameras you’re paying for that, servicing, warranty, and replacements if needed from the nearest dealer. For the price, it’s not bad. I’d buy one if my work didn’t demand more from me.
I had hands-on time with the S2 during their road show but haven’t blogged about it due to other things taking more priority like the field reviews.
Photographers here in NYC do well. If you can justify the expense, then purchase it. That’s really about it. With a Leica you will probably never buy another body again saving you over the long term quite a bit of money.
Lots of Leica customers aren’t only “well heeled.” They are people that sacrificed for a long time. Many students shoot with Leica’s, you’d be amazed.
Yes, they are a luxary brand, I’d agree with that. But with their marketing they also show themselves as very open, kind and caring as a company that fiercely hold onto their traditions. They are to be respected for that. When Canon went to the EOS line, they lost a lot of customers. As did Olympus when they went digital due to both companies almost abandoning their past. Nikon, Pentax and Leica didn’t.
Epson also makes digital rangefinders. You’re right about the D3s, but consider the fact that they use a CCD vs CMOS sensor. Also, they have the most film-like look to their images. Hence, black and white does well with them.
Please explain how they turned their back.
Also please keep in mind that I’m trying to be balanced here and not attack any one side.
-Chris
Editor, ThePhoblographer.com
Chris Gampat
April 13, 2010 at 6:34 PM
1) I do notice a lag with the X1. The camera stops down the iris, before opening it again and then taking the shot. You’re not going to shoot at Winogrand speed with a camera operating like that.
Again, the X1 is hardly a pro camera. The IQ is the best in it’s class due to the APS sensor and the ergonomics are excellent, but at the end of the day it’s a very expensive point and shoot.
If Leica wants to offer a lower cost alternative that appeals to professionals, they should produce an APS-C rangefinder in the mold of the CL. Unfortunately S. Daniels is on the record saying that Leica has no interest whatsoever in producing such a camera and if you can’t afford an M9, too bad, buy a used M8 or look elsewhere.
2) Yes, there is the occasional pro shooter with an M9 in the field, but they are a drop in the ocean. Although the camera is built to very high tolerances and the fit and finish is very tight, it is not sealed. I would not risk shooting with one a downpour, nor would I feel comfortable using one in a desert with dust as fine as talcum powder. A working pro can’t afford to take that risk, because if the camera fails due to environmental impact and they don’t get the shot, they don’t get paid. They will also have a very expensive and very dead camera on their hands.
Often the comparison is made to the unsealed analog bodies that were used through out the Vietnam War in jungle condition. This really isn’t a good analogy. A analog M will not short circuit if water enters the body. Instead it can be dried out and will probably continue to function. This is not the case with the M9.
Throughout the industry it has been the norm for close to 20 years that pro bodies are sealed against rain and dust. Yes, people work with unsealed bodies, but we are mostly talking about consumer or prosumer cameras that cost considerably less and who’s loss would not be a financial disaster (and a 2nd backup body is cheap)
3) I’m not even sure if the Epson RD-1 is still in production. We’re also talking about a camera with a 6MP sensor that traces it’s roots to the Nikon D100. I’m not even sure if publications will accept images of such low resolution for assignments.
4) I understand that the M9 uses a CCD vs CMOS. But ultimately the only thing people care about is how clean the high iso performance of the camera is. That’s what counts and the M9 just cuts it at 2500asa. I’m also pretty certain that the vast majority of people out there do not care nor notice the difference in character between an image taken with a CCD and CMOS sensor.
I have to cut Leica some slack on this subject, because they do need a sensor with the offset lenses. Kodak is one of the few companies that will make a relatively small run of custom sensors, so they do not have much of a choice as to where they can go. Sensor development is incredibly expensive and Leica is dependent on 3rd party suppliers. Therefore Leica will probably always lag behind companies like Nikon and Canon.
But Leica justifying the high price tag of the M9, because of the supposedly industry leading performance of the sensor is a little disingenuous. The M9 IQ is very high, but it’s hardly benchmark setting.
5) As I said, I think Leica is catering to pros with the S2 and the features it offers. If they can build a support network similar to Hasselblad etc. it has a good chance of succeeding. It is a very nice camera and if I was in the market for a MF system it certainly would be something I would look in to. I just wish they would adopt the same mentality, when it comes to the M-series.
My only question in regards to the S2 is how do you upgrade the sensor 3-4 years from now? Will Leica offer an upgrade program or will buyers have to toss the entire body? With Hasselbald you simply swap the back. I guess they are counting on people writing the camera off on their taxes and dumping them, when they are ready to upgrade.
6) “Photographers here in NYC do well.”
Maybe people who work in fashion or advertising, but most photojournalists (who supposedly are the bedrock of the Leica mythos) are barely scrapping by.
7) “Lots of Leica customers aren’t only “well heeled.” They are people that sacrificed for a long time. Many students shoot with Leica’s, you’d be amazed.”
BHphoto:
M9 $6995
1.4/35 Summilux ASPH $4495
1.4/50 Summilux ASPH $3695
You are looking at roughly $10,000 for an M9 with a single 35mm or 50mm lens. Make that around $8500 if you get a single Summarit, instead of the Summilux.
Any student with a $10,000 camera is hardly poor or even middle class. I would call a student with a used M6 “dedicated”, but the sale of that camera didn’t put a nickel in Leica’s pocket.
Personally I own a bag of Leica gear, half of it purchased new. So, yes. If you make saving for one a priority it is doable.
But I’m fortunate to have a well paying job. Prices on Leica gear has gone up considerably over the past few years and unlike
digital cameras the analog bodies did not have an “expiration date”.
While the M9 is a big improvement over the M8.x, the lack of proper sealing makes it a difficult choice for photojournalists, who often have to work under adverse conditions. Sounds trivial, but it’s a big deal in practice, especially when we are talking about a camera this expensive. If you are working with two M9 bodies in the rain you’re playing Russian Roulette to the tune of $14,000. Most people are not willing to take that risk.
There is no tiered product line. Leica is the only camera company in the world that does not have a diverse product lineup with different price levels. Either you can afford two M9 bodies for $14,000 or you don’t play at all. S. Daniels is on the record saying that Leica has no interest whatsoever in producing a second lower spec’d camera at a lower price point. He quite bluntly stated that if you can’t afford an M9, too bad, buy a used M8 or look elsewhere. Right there Leica gave the middle finger to the vast majority of working photographers and a large portion of their loyal base of enthusiasts, who have been shooting analog M for years and can’t afford the jump to the M9.
That said I understand why the M9 is expensive. Production costs in Germany are very high and they are made by hand in relatively low numbers, so you do not enjoy the benefits of the economy of scale. But the arrogance that belies the excuse for not making a lower priced alternative is staggering and says a lot about how the company now sees itself.
In general Leica has moved to present itself as a luxury lifestyle brand and not necessarily a high-end manufacturer of professional camera gear. Maybe they were forced to do that in order to survive as a niece player. But Leica’s marketing of the M series sounds more like they are selling Mont Blanc fountain pens, than high end pro cameras. In comparison look at the approach they are taking with the S2. That’s more what it should be.
Bob
April 14, 2010 at 4:45 AM
Personally, I am still upset that my Porsche doesn’t have a payload area and a winch for long-haul trucking.
Leicas are a niche product, and have been since the invention of the 35mm SLR. They deliver very high-quality results in a very small package, and this has its advantages in certain applications. I can certainly see how they would be useful for a professional who needs the maximum quality and minimum bulk.
Any professional photographer will inevitably have a number of cameras. There is no one-size-fits-all camera, nor should there be. If you need to shoot in a monsoon, you probably should choose a different camera. Henri Cartier-Bresson’s M3 was presumably not weather sealed, either.
Whenever the topic of Leica comes up, someone inevitably complains that it’s unfair that the cameras cost so much, and that Leica should, out of the goodness of its heart, offer a more affordable option. But Leicas have never been “affordable”. The closest they ever came was the Leica CL, which cannibalized the market for their main rangefinder line.
The luxury branding and price point are what enables Leica to continue to exist where others have failed. There is no huge market for affordable rangefinder cameras. Epson proved that. As Mike Johnson has said: most people say they want an affordable rangefinder, when what they really want is a Leica.
For the record, all of my Leica gear was bought used. As I see it, Leica’s R&D was subsidized by the first user, and I got the gear at a very reasonable price. I don’t see how suggesting you should buy a used M8 is some kind of insult.
david s.
April 14, 2010 at 6:32 PM